86.Why you should be an Associate or not

Spencer Dupre (00:03)
Yo, yo, yo everybody. What is up? Welcome back to another episode of the what now podcast. We've got Spencer and Zach back on the Dolo cast. Uh, next week we have a really cool guest coming in for you guys. We've got Dr. Colton wood. We're super stoked to have him on one of our homies that we've been hanging out with recently, but this week he got us again. So what's up guys? What's up, Zach? How are you bro?

ZT (00:20)
Mm-hmm.

What's up, what's up, what's up. Great to be here as always without the vacuum.

Spencer Dupre (00:29)
dude, for those of you guys who don't know, Zach was like just his forehead on the camera and we've been trying to get the video uploaded more. So we're like working on that. And so Zach moved his camera and then he had this like Jarvis from Iron Man sounding vacuum.

ZT (00:30)
You

It's a very

fancy vacuum that talks. It tells you when to clean it. So we had to move that.

Spencer Dupre (00:49)
So talking back to him. So

what's up, man? How are you?

ZT (00:55)
I'm doing pretty well. Not going to lie. I'm, one of my patients teaches a like hybrid high rocks class at lifetime Tuesday mornings. She was like, you should really come. And I was like, all right, what time is it? She said five 30. I was like, okay. so we got destroyed for an hour, super early. but we're, we're, we're cruising, man. It's been a, been a good one day of week. What about you?

Spencer Dupre (01:09)
Cheers.

Yeah,

that's good, dude. mean, solid. Yeah, February is great. For those of you guys who don't know, we just signed on our new office space. So we're moving from our little 700 square foot office space to 2,000 square feet that we'll be operating. And then we have another, I think it's like 1200 square feet that we're leasing out to functional medicine and PT. So that's been pretty sweet. We're excited about that.

ZT (01:28)
Poopoo!

Spencer Dupre (01:49)
And we're ready for the opportunity. being said, now that we have a bigger office, well, like before, like I really couldn't accept students like to like come and shadow at the office because it's like we would be like rubbing butts like the whole time because the office is so small. And so, yeah, we should have some more opportunities for people to come and hang out with us and visit. And then with that, you know, we'll be looking to bring on an associate and grow our team.

ZT (01:59)
Shadow.

I'm

Spencer Dupre (02:18)
in that way, we're hiring for some more CAs right now. So yeah, I think that's kind what we're going to get into today is just kind of like, both like how we both knew that we were going to be open in our own practices versus getting an associateship. and then kind of what we're looking for in our ideal associates. So, Zach, what are your thoughts on that? How do you, what are some like measurements or like some

How do you kind of like get a feel for like, you know, should I be a associate or should I open my own practice? Should I associate first and then open my own practice? Should I get right out of the gates? Like what, how is that going for you?

ZT (02:59)
I think it's very personalized question. And so I don't want this to come off as like advice for anyone. Cause I think there's too many people in the chiropractic space that were being totally honest that tell you, have to go open your own business. If you don't open your own business right out of school, you're a failure. Which is just like, the more I've been in business, the crazier I've begun to realize that sort of stigma around chiropractic and what that does for really our profession as a whole.

and we can get into that in a second, but, really for me personally, I knew going into chiropractic school, I was going to open on my own. that was something I was pretty set on. I've never been a great employee. and what I mean by that is I, whether there was a way to kind of go up in leadership, if there was, I typically found myself to the top quite quickly, because I.

have natural leading abilities, but I also don't follow direction very well. It's one thing that I just don't do a good job of. If you tell me to do something, I typically will not do it. Morgan, my wife, has learned how to tell me to do things without telling me to do them. So it's an art, but I really don't follow direction well. I think if my way can do it better, I'm just gonna do it that way, and that typically doesn't do well.

Spencer Dupre (04:04)
You

ZT (04:28)
If you are an associate and your doc wants you to do their systems, which is totally fair. You're probably going into a successful practice that those systems work. But yeah, I just don't follow direction. Well, I, I like to do my own thing. I mean, even like our practice model, if you will, not that it's like recreating the wheel, but we use inside scans, but we also use posture analysis. we don't use all three scans. So I really wanted to create something.

from the ground up. So that's a big reason I opted in to go on my own. And I also knew that I would have some form of startup capital going into it as well. So I think I've shared that, like how I was able to gain that startup capital. But I knew that I would be able to build out what I think is a pretty decent office right from the jump. So those were really the two big things. I wasn't like a good follower, wasn't a good employee.

I showed up to work and everything, like, then really having that startup capital to go forth and do it. What about you?

Spencer Dupre (05:38)
Yeah, do you think it's the label doesn't follow directions or just doesn't play well with others?

ZT (05:46)
No, I think I played really well with others. I think. I don't know. Maybe not.

Spencer Dupre (05:55)
That's a hard question. That's more of a deeper thought question. yeah, I I agree. I actually am the opposite whenever I was going all through school. I was actually, I mean, we had even talked about me working for you at one point, which is crazy. And I was cool with that. My biggest thing is I always thought that I...

ZT (05:55)
I don't know. Yeah.

Crazy.

Spencer Dupre (06:18)
My biggest thing is I always thought that I was going to get an associate ship and every time that I tried to get one, it just never worked out. I didn't have any startup capital. And so I worked at the J, which most people know about, which dude, it was a good experience for me. So I guess I technically was an associate, even though I was like the only one in the clinic that I worked with at. So, but I mean, the biggest thing is I wasn't the primary business owner, right? I wasn't responsible for the business.

ZT (06:37)
Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (06:44)
I was just working in the business, not necessarily on the business. dude, I think for me, the biggest thing was that I had a vision for what I wanted, not even necessarily like for my own life, but I had a vision to create a place where that empowered people, both our patients and our team. And,

I felt like it was either one or the other. Like I felt like in a lot of practices that I saw, it was the business owner directed all the priority toward the patients or the business owner directed all of the priority toward their team and themselves. And it sacrificed the experience of the patient. And I really wanted to do both. And I was really excited to provide a place that could help people achieve their hopes, their dreams, their goals.

And I was looking to be a part of something like that, but I didn't really have one that resonated a ton with me and my personal story and my message and in the location where I wanted to live. So, like the biggest thing for me is I wanted to have someone who, and be a part of something that first like was heavily involved in the community was more than just a place where people can come in and get their back cracked and leave.

where people go in and they're known by everyone, like, but like where you're not just a number and like, you're not just someone who works behind the desk, but you're a person who contributes to the culture and contributes to the business or where you're not just someone who goes in and just gets adjusted, but you're someone who is a part of the culture and a part of the community there. So, that's really what I was looking for. And I just didn't find anything that really fit the bill for me. And so I just said, you know, I guess I got to do it myself. So.

ZT (08:17)
Thanks.

Spencer Dupre (08:39)
That's kind of what led me down the path, I guess, to building the business and saying, like, I guess I'm going to open up my own. Like, so I think it's interesting. Yeah, I guess I never really thought about that. But when I think about my time in school, like I really actually never thought that I would open up my own practice. I actually tried really hard to not open up my own practice because I think I was very risk adverse. It was safer to kind of play with other people's money than it was on my own. And

ZT (08:53)
Mm-hmm.

Yep.

Spencer Dupre (09:06)
You know, that's just kind of my own ego, like a lot of self-worth stuff. didn't feel like I was worthy to be a leader. And I guess that's the farthest thing from the truth. So I guess we get kind of like pushed into the direction in which we need to be challenged the most. So yeah, I mean, that's kind of how it led for me. So you got any other thoughts on that?

ZT (09:26)
I think it's interesting to, I think one thing that we had in common is creating something that we didn't see in the profession. And I think in hindsight, we probably could have found that. But I also think the profession as a whole, there's not a great like...

branding, if you will, other than from like an aesthetic standpoint. So it's hard to know the culture because there's so many mom and pop shops. Um, and if that offends you, that, I mean, that's what most of us are is like smaller practices is just like a mom and pop two, three, four person team. Um, but it's hard to understand that culture, right? It's not like, Hey, I want to get into supplements. There's first form, there's BPN, there's

Ascent there's momentous like and you kind of can tell through their branding and their culture and the content that they're putting out like which is the right one for you. And that's something that I think very little chiropractic offices or franchises or whatever might be do a great job of. And so I think it is difficult to find that, which is why I think it's so easy to just go and open on your own. And I think the easiest part.

is opening and then once you're open, things get quite difficult. yeah.

Spencer Dupre (10:46)
Yeah, I I think that it kind of falls back into, I think it's kind of like both. I think that, yes, I was talking to Jeremy about this a couple of days ago, but like chiropractors, we, and really just like healthcare service providers in general need to do a better job at telling our brand story. What you're describing with like First Form and VPN and all those other companies is like, they have a brand story that they tell and you utilize their products in their story.

whereas in service healthcare, service providers, we are like really focused on the, am the hero. We are the solution to your X, Y, and Z where it needs to be more of a story of, I know, like we know that you're struggling with this. We understand that this is like the way that things are going. And these are the stories that we can buy into for you. And you can be a part of the story that's going on here. If you would like.

ZT (11:27)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (11:45)
And so I think that's kind of, as we're designing our new office, as we're moving in, like that's one of the big things is like trying to say, how do we fit into the story of our ideal client and what they're going for and how do we tailor our experience to enhance their story and how do we enroll people in the story of what goes behind in our practice versus just being like, you have back pain, you come and see me, you have this and you see that. So.

ZT (11:45)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (12:14)
And where I think that other brands really do a good job of enrolling you in that, especially the ones that are like really gravitating and the ones that like you really build like a cult following around. I think that's a big thing. And then it's the entrepreneurial myth. So I think that it's hard for people who want to associate to buy into the brand story of working at certain places because we do a poor job telling it. Yes. But then I also think that the E-myth, I mean, it's, it's the thing that's why there's the whole book around it. But the E-myth is that like, I'm good at adjusting. I should open up my own business.

ZT (12:29)
Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (12:44)
I'm good at baking pies, like that's the story of the E-Myth. like, so I should open up my own bakery, right? But you don't, but like we're so far removed and negligent of, you know, leading a team, managing finances, building systems and operations, all that kind of stuff. And then that makes you actually like less of like just adjusting. I think one of the big things that you, that like is the best pulse check and like,

ZT (12:48)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (13:11)
I might kind of like throw this out there, but I think that the best pulse check for you is that if you are more interested, if you love adjusting more than you love leading, then you're probably a better associate than you are. Then you are a business owner and like that doesn't mean that you can't be a good business owner or that you'll be a bad associate like vice versa. Like, I love leadership because you can totally be a leader.

ZT (13:25)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (13:39)
as an associate because like that's something that we're looking for is someone who wants to be a leader, like lead the like be a leader in the office. So like we as the business owners can remove ourselves a little bit. But I think if you're like, yeah, I'm going to open up my practice so I can adjust more than I would as an associate. I think that's like a big disconnect right there.

ZT (13:44)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Right. And I think too, that's, I think we've talked about it maybe earlier on, but I think that's one of the bigger slaps in the face. If you feel like I'm a great adjuster. not some people can tell the difference if they've been to multiple chiropractors, but more often than not, you're either someone's first chiropractor, second chiropractor. They don't know they didn't get adjusted five times a day in chiropractic school, right? They don't, they don't know the difference between a good adjustment.

and not so good adjustment. I think hanging your, like putting your sign up on outside your office and saying like, I'm the best adjuster in town. I don't think that's like a great reason to open your practice. So I think you're spot on there.

Spencer Dupre (14:40)
Yeah.

Yeah. And I think like if you're, if you're shingle, like if you're, if your tag for yourself is really like, I'm the best adjuster in town, like tell everyone that, but don't tell like patients that tell all the doctors that because like, dude, like every doctor that's hiring wants someone who's a really good adjuster. That's like, dude, I'm a really good adjuster. I want to adjust a lot of people. And like that, like really sets you apart. That's like a really good selling point. Like, dude, if you really are a fire adjuster and you're like, this is what I want to do. I just want to light people up. Like.

Well, one, give me a call. like, and if you want to see kids and you're a good adjuster, like give me a call because I, we want you on our team. So, but yeah, I think if like, you're more, I think if you're really focused on like, Hey, I want to really deliver an experience. Hey, I really want to like nurture people. Hey, I really want to create this environment for people. I think that's like a really good hint that you.

ZT (15:11)
would love that. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (15:36)
Are going to enjoy your time as a business owner more because it's more of like crafting this experience than it is just delivering adjustments. mean, like, you know, I mean, I think the first week that I was in practice, I think I did like 10 adjustments or something like that. And so like, if you're like, oh dude, I can't wait to get out of school and like just throw hands like on people and like light people up. Like I think, and you're going to open your own practice.

ZT (15:55)
Hehehehe

Spencer Dupre (15:59)
you have a lot of work to do before you can get that. Yes, you'll get there and build a lot of volume, but it takes a lot of time to do that. So if you're really itching to get your hands on people, like an associate ship is like really like a great place to start.

ZT (16:10)
Mm-hmm. And I think, I think too, it's just better, another thing is not being in a rush. I think a lot of, a lot of us are in a rush to open the business. And it's something I wish someone had told me because I probably would have viewed it differently was, hey, if you're not comfortable, like not being open for the first six months because of permits or things going wrong with your, your build out or.

finding the right space. it's not always like, okay, I'm move back to my hometown. I've been looking at this one space. I'm gonna lease it out. It's not really like apartment shopping. Like you don't just go in, pick your spot and then move in the next day. It takes in some aspects, depending on the space you're looking at. But there's plenty of stories of people like it took them six, seven, eight months to get the X-ray cleared by their city permitting. And if you're fresh out of school, you may not have that ability to kind of sit around and wait.

And you're going to feel that rush and you're going to feel that anticipation build. So if you're comfortable there and you have the ability to do sit and wait, then no problem. But just factor in some of the things that I want to say can go wrong, but that can just slow you down from opening as well.

Spencer Dupre (17:26)
Yeah, I think if you're like a person who likes to win and wants to win now, I think that like that's a big thing. Like that's a big muscle. You have to flex that delayed gratification muscle is definitely one that you have to build as a business owner. Yeah, I mean, dude, I think like really like people who are like great associates or people who are like one, like self motivated, willing to learn and leaders, but also people who are like good team players. Like I think that's like a big thing.

ZT (17:36)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (17:56)
I think that if you are looking to offload a lot of initial responsibility, but still want leadership, I think that's like great quality in a really high level associate. That's like really good characteristics that you're looking for. saying like, dude, I want to be a part of something. I want to be super successful and I'm willing to work for it, but I don't know if I necessarily want to carry the yoke or like be the lead horse on something because I don't know if I necessarily like want to run point on this project. You know, I think like,

ZT (18:03)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (18:26)
for all the sports analogies or all the other things that you get. Because I mean, think the biggest thing to do is like, there's a lot of over glorification of owning your own business. And I think there's a lot of down, the same amount of downplaying about being an associate. I think that's like a big misconception. Like everyone thinks that they're like, like all I see the associate do is like working and stuff, but nobody sees the vacations that you take.

ZT (18:37)
Okay.

Spencer Dupre (18:53)
how Matt Delgado do like he does a really good job of taking care of his associates like Brooks is like very well taken care of both financially and with her time. know, like there's a lot of like S like Denise at SLC like she took great care of Kate whenever Kate was working at SLC like fire associateship like we never thought that Kate was going to leave that associateship because it was such a good position where Kate had like a lot of responsibility. We just live really far like she was driving an hour and you know, yeah.

ZT (19:00)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

One way, yeah.

Spencer Dupre (19:22)
And then in the same, like, so nobody sees like the, nobody sees the $2,500 bonus after a record month that the associates get. Nobody sees the week long PTO or the, my mom is sick and so I need to go and visit her. Like I'm going to let you off type of deal. But also like on the associateship side. And then nobody also sees the, Hey, I'm moving office spaces. Like last year when I moved office spaces, I was at the office 72 days consecutively in a row. Like I.

ZT (19:29)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (19:50)
I was in that office every single day for 72 days. Nobody saw that. Nobody saw the time whenever my utilities never got switched over because the city didn't sign the paperwork. So I have 50 people on the schedule, but then my power gets cut off to the practice. And I have to get that up and running because I have patients that are coming in. Nobody sees those kind of things on the business owner side.

ZT (20:12)
Mm-hmm.

Right. Right. And I think too, like one thing that at least being a solo doc, and I'm totally fine with it right now, I think it's something I'm craving and something I look forward to having an associate in the practice here soon. But if you're someone that really enjoys not just like being a team player, but collaboration, like if you're in student clinic and you're like, man, it's really cool to go to my clinic doc or to my peers.

and bounce this case or that case off one another. If that's something you really appreciate, you might say with your friends, hey, I know we're going to all open together and we'll send each other this case or that case. But once you become a business owner, it quickly, you're like, I don't really have time to like bounce this off one another because you have to get the utilities fixed or you have to, know, the wifi, all of a sudden you walk in and your wifi is not working or your phone line is down. So you're like, well, I'm not going to, I don't.

I'm not going to send this case or that case. So I think that's another really big aspect that in most professions, especially from the health side, like it is funny that we constantly compare ourselves to MDs from whatever a smartness standpoint, but with MDs, they don't go and start their own clinics more often than not. Same with lawyers. Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (21:33)
They really don't like if you think about it, like most doctors are with a hospital group or they, yeah.

ZT (21:39)
And the hospital group does all the marketing for them. I mean, it was, was interesting. one of our friends, husbands graduated from law school around the same time that we graduated from chiropractic school. And he made a very interesting comment of like in law school, if you go open up on your own, you're kind of like, look down upon. He's like, it's the complete opposite. and so it's, it's really, really interesting from that aspect because you got to learn your, your fresh, like, you don't know what you don't know. You don't even.

know what you don't know, you just don't know what you don't know. And so you got to be able to think on your feet and be reactive more often than preventative when it comes to being a business owner, when you haven't been seeing a hundred patients a week, 150, 200, 300 patients a week. And so I think that's another big thing to consider if you really love collaboration and you don't want to be in a reactive state very often, I think an associateship is.

It's really great. and we mentioned Brooks. think it's something that also goes unmentioned is if you feel like you're only able to find like, for lack of better words, a shitty associateship, or you're only looking at the joint because you get Fridays off or whatever it might be. There might be, there might be things. Yeah. There might be things that you have to, to give up, whether you're in school as a student right now, attending more seminars, shadowing more offices, whatever it might be.

Spencer Dupre (22:54)
You don't.

ZT (23:07)
or things that you have to give up to really gain that really great associateship, right? Like Brooks, although she makes it look easy with social media, like that's, that's effort that she's been putting in since school. It looks really nice and like aesthetic and everything, but that that's effort. And so she was able to obtain a great associateship because of the work she was putting in. And same for, for quite a few of our friends that were able to

Spencer Dupre (23:19)
Bro, she grinds dude. She grinds.

ZT (23:37)
land grid like Kate, Kate put in work throughout school and was able to get the SLC associateship. So, if you feel like you should just be handed a great associateship because you made it all the way through and got those DCs behind your name, I think that's, that's a fallacy.

Spencer Dupre (23:52)
Well, I mean, that's the thing is like you like because you graduate doesn't mean that you like deserve like, dude, like you're just starting, right? Like you're just starting like you're out in the world now. Like, and now you just now have an opportunity to start working. And so like that, think that's a big misconception too, is that like being quote, like underpaid as an associate, like I think the biggest thing is like, dude, you're learning so much in the first year. And a lot of times

ZT (24:19)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (24:20)
If you have an associate ship, your doctor is going to be the one teaching you that. think like, yeah, I think I was looking back at our 2024 P and L and I think I spent like close, I think it's like close to 120 grand on continuing education this last year. Like I think I actually spent close to six figures in continuing education, like in terms of, and like that's because like not just the courses, but like the travel and all the stuff that comes with continuing education, because I think to do it at a high level, you have to be highly invested and like to get like really the best like quality courses, they're not cheap.

And, cause like in school, you get the student pricing and like, so the student price, like for those of you guys who don't know, cause I was a student pricing guy, like the student pricing for a lot of seminars was like 350, I think for like a high quality seminar, that same seminar, you're looking at like 700 bucks. And then like, now we have like, it's me and Kate. And so like, we're paying for both of us to go to that. like my $300 course is turning into 1400 bucks, like, like that, just because now I open up my own business where, as in like, now then for me.

ZT (25:15)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (25:18)
Though like we go and we take that course and then we come back and we're literally teaching whoever's going to be in there with us like all for free. like the, like, if you really want to be poured into and you're like really looking for someone to like mentor you and do those kinds of things. Like that's sweet because like you're going to learn like through osmosis, like in those offices, but, the, that, that value is being translated in what you're learning. Like it might not show up on your W2 at the end of the year, but it's going to be something that you're going to gain.

which is then going to make you more valuable. And then down the road, you're going to recoup that because you're be paid for the value that you provide. go ahead.

ZT (25:56)
And, and one

thing I've heard too, like on top of that being poured into, one thing I've heard from like older docs that have had associates, they're like, I just wish they would ask to get lunch or asked to get coffee. but again, there's, and this is again on leadership and not probably setting clear expectations, or really like what the schedule looks like, but there's probably a misconception that when you are associating,

Spencer Dupre (26:09)
Mm-hmm.

ZT (26:22)
The doc is crazy busy. So you don't want to bother them. Like the, the lead doc, the owner is super busy. So you don't want to ask them like, Hey, can I pick your brain for 45 minutes over coffee? whatever it might be. But I think if you are an associate ship listening, I would have a hard time believing that if you went to the clinic owner or whoever it be and say, Hey, can we get coffee next Friday? I know we're we're closed that day or.

you know, we have a three hour lunch break, like, can we grab a coffee and just pick your brain? I bet you they would be thrilled to do that with you and get to know you more and help you out. Because I think in some aspects, maybe people are hiring associates for the wrong reasons, but more often than not, they're also looking to pour back in because they do have a lot of knowledge to teach you.

Spencer Dupre (27:11)
Yeah, I mean, I think that like if you really love learning from other people, like if you are going to these seminars and let's say you go to let's say you go to John Martinez or you go to TRT or something like that and you're like, dude, I love this stuff that they're teaching. This is so cool. I'm going to use this. What I found myself like when I was going to other seminars, I would be like, that's a really cool idea. I really want to go and study that and try to figure out how did they come to that conclusion. Right.

ZT (27:24)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (27:40)
And so I was always like, you know, like that's a really, that like points me in the good, in a really good direction and let me go and figure out how I can make that apply for me. And, but it's like, I really like to like dissect and break those things down. And I think like a good pulse check too. Like if you listen to our stuff and you're like, listen to us talk about business and marketing and flywheel and all that kind of stuff. And like in the back of your mind, you're like, man, I really just wish that they would like talk more about like patient cases or like, I really just wish that.

they would bring up more philosophy or I really just wish that they talked about innate more or like those kinds of things. Then like that's a really good sign that like you would love to be poured into by like a doctor who has more experience than you because all of the stuff that we talk about and like study marketing and flywheel and all that kind of stuff like that's stuff that we do to like work on the business like because business is trans is the same like regardless if you are

facilitating the innate healing potential in the body, or if you're selling lemonade on the side of the stand, like business is the same and it has to be something that you can study. So I think that's just like another really good thing of like, I'm really interested in that. it's like, think another thing too is like, if you're really interested in all of those business concepts, but you also have someone that you're like, that's the mission that I'm on. Like they are saying the same thing and I want to do that. Like why not join them? Because like,

ZT (29:00)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (29:03)
Like if you want to go far, go together. And that's the biggest thing is like people like me, like dude, like I feel like people like us, like we have really big visions, big dreams, big missions. And so to have someone who like really likes what we do and says, I'm willing to like to join arms with you. Like the first person who says that they're willing to do that, like we will be so ecstatic to bring you on and like pour into you so much because like we're really looking for someone to be on mission like that. You know, it's so hard to find somebody who's really bought in into the same ideas that we're at. So.

ZT (29:05)
you

Spencer Dupre (29:32)
That's another great way to do is an opportunity to invest. If we've already figured out the hard part about what you want to do, why not just join us? Because the hard part for us is getting people on our mission. And the hard part for you is getting started. And so that's a win-win for both people.

ZT (29:34)
Okay.

Bye.

100%. And I think too, it's, interesting. I don't know when this started. can't like pinpoint it back to when, um, but it's also interesting to how the associate ship contract, it's always two years, right? You're always, you're always just there for two years and then you're on your own. Right. It's like, so I'm to go work there for two years. Um, at least that's something I hear all the time is like, I want to be in this spot for two years. Uh, and then once I have it figured out, I'll go on my own. Um,

which is crazy to think having been in business now for two years, right? Yeah, it's crazy. So I think it's interesting too, just from that aspect of like, I think I got it figured out in two years of just adjusting that now I'm good to go. Especially for you in the right spot and you're learning so much like, but I think one point I did want to make just from like a, I don't know.

Spencer Dupre (30:21)
I feel like I know so much and so little at the same time.

ZT (30:47)
more of a fun aspect, something I posed the question to our group chat or our Mio alumni chat a few months ago. I'm curious your thoughts, do you, cause something I realized is something I think that hurts the profession is how many of us have gone on our own to open up our own practice because people only are going to try a product once or twice before they're like, yeah, not for me. And that's not to say that.

I mean, I wish I could say every chiropractic office is perfect and great. And that's just not the case. It's not the case in any business, but there are so many chiropractic offices. So I'm curious if you're, if you think like.

if that has any validity or if I'm just overthinking it.

Spencer Dupre (31:34)
dude, I mean, that's like a multi I think it's like a multi layered question. I think there's a lot that goes into it because I think that like, if you look at it, if you look at it from the outside in and you like all right, so in other industries, any business that's really like under five years old is considered a startup. Really any business that's like doing under like, you know, I would even say like $3 million. Yeah, like anything under like $3 million, you're still considered like mom and pop shop, you know.

ZT (31:36)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Things like 25 million.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (32:02)
like a small business, like, mean, really your small business until you have multiple investors and stuff, you know, like, all right, you don't even have to be that, because there's a lot of big businesses that are also privately owned, so you don't have to, I take that back. But, I mean, like, I think this is the thing, I think that, I think as a profession, we do a poor job of leading the people that are coming next, like, we could definitely be pouring into our profession more, I mean, in medical school.

ZT (32:25)
Thanks.

Spencer Dupre (32:28)
You have to do a fellowship. Like, so you graduate from school, you are a licensed doctor and then, or like a residency, and then you do a residency. Like, so you are a licensed medical doctor, but then you have to do at least a couple of years of learning from someone else. And then you go out and do that. Right. And yeah.

ZT (32:33)
Mm-hmm.

but still under a hospital, like you like do your fellowship for your,

your, whatever it's called for three or four years. then.

Spencer Dupre (32:53)
Yeah, I think

fellowship is like internship in chiropractic and then residency is like your first associateship after. I think that's how it works. But that's just from what I've watched in Grey's Anatomy. I think that we could do a better job of getting mentorship because really like one year in the clinic, you're really like in student clinic for the first.

ZT (32:57)
Yeah. I think you're right. Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (33:17)
whatever it is, like three quarters of your year. And then you do three months of like CBI, which is in the community. So you've really only seen three months of practice where it's like, this is what real practice is like, and you're only there for three months. Right. And then like sometimes like as a CBI internship, you're literally just shooting x-rays and like filling out paperwork, which is like a big part of business. It's true. And so I think we could do a better job of nurturing our students as a profession.

ZT (33:18)
Mm-hmm.

Bye!

Spencer Dupre (33:45)
for a longer period of time, that's a really hard thing to do. And like, I'm not here to have that conversation, how we fix that yet. But then I think that like, we put a lot of pressure, I think in the seminars, we get a lot of seminars from people who still are not completely independent of their business, telling you that the only way to make money is through being your own business owner.

ZT (33:52)
Right, right.

Spencer Dupre (34:14)
And that I don't believe that that's the case. think that Tony does a really, really, really good job of getting his associates to be teachers in the profession. I think he like, I think he's probably out of everyone doing the best job of getting his associates to take a leadership position in the profession. Like, so shout out Tony, you do a really good job of that. so I think that the perception around like you're only successful if you open your own business is false.

ZT (34:35)
Yeah.

No.

Spencer Dupre (34:44)
and or it's heavily misconstrued and that if you're an associate you're a failure and so I think that

ZT (34:49)
Yeah. And if you, and

if you're an associate, can't do a lot of like the entrepreneurial things that, that a business owner can do. think that's one of the.

Spencer Dupre (34:55)
That's yeah, I mean, because most of your associate

positions are going to be commission based anyway.

ZT (35:00)
I think that's one of the best, one of the better takeaways, shout out Austin Cohen, but from his talk at Cairo wealth con was there's no reason an associate can't go and buy a rental property every three to five years. Right? Like there's no reason that can't be done. You can't go, mean, save up, put the deposit down on a $250, $300,000 house, run it out. You don't have to be a business owner initially to do that. Right.

Spencer Dupre (35:12)
Yeah.

I don't think that anyone in the world looks at the doctor who's working in the hospital and think he's lesser than the person that owns the hospital. Like, I don't think that's the case. Like in these pediatrician groups or like these dentists, right? Like say you have multiple dentists working in the, in the practice. I don't think that anybody's like, I want to see this dentist because he's the owner. Like, I don't think that that's it, unless they have a business issue. I don't think that in.

ZT (35:55)
Right.

Spencer Dupre (35:59)
Dude at the CrossFit gym, bro, like the coaches that are there, all the coaches are qualified. You don't look at the one that owns the gym as the best coach. He's just the one that pays the rent at the end of the day. But for some reason in chiropractic associate, you think like junior doctor, like intern, lesser than doctor. And I don't think that's the case like at all, at all. and so I think that like we as a generation of chiropractors, like our generation,

ZT (36:06)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (36:29)
I think it's our responsibility to treat our associates very well because those people are partners, right? Saying like, hey dude, I'm willing to partner with you for you to help me support my life. And I think that's an honor rather than obligation.

ZT (36:36)
Mm-hmm.

think that's something that I would, I don't know much about it, but like watching suits and then like partnering in law firms. I'm like, I don't understand why that's not more of a concept in chiropractic.

Spencer Dupre (36:51)
Yeah.

Yeah,

nobody would be like, don't want that lawyer because he's not the one that started the business. You would say, I want to go to this law firm because they have the best lawyers. I want to go.

ZT (37:08)
And maybe

the only people that are saying that are the ones that have been going to that same lawyer for 20 years. Right. So, I mean, I don't know, same, same like a barbershop. Like there's, there might be some people, myself included. I'm going to see my same person every time I go, but I know plenty of people, they just have no issue walking in like, that's the barber for the day. That's going to, that's who's going to come out here. You know,

Spencer Dupre (37:15)
Right.

Dude, I think

that's huge, bro, because I was at the barber shop this weekend and I was getting my hair cut and I was talking to my guy Cam about the barber shop. was like, man, dude, it's popping in here, dude. Business is good. And he's like, yeah. He's like, we're all doing really well. Like we're all doing about eight to 10 cuts a day. I'm like, man, you're cutting hair for like eight, like six, seven, eight hours a day. He's like, yeah, dude, we're all doing good. And he's like, the guy, I forget what his name is, but.

ZT (37:45)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (37:56)
I think his name is like Jay. He's like, yeah, dude, Jay, like did a really good job setting us up. We're all like, we all eaten here. And I was like, which one is Jay? And like, like that's the issue though is like, you like, nobody knows who owns the shop because everyone is playing an equal part. And I think that's like the biggest thing. And so I think that we, our generation can do a better job of doing that and building our, our partners and our up in that, right.

ZT (38:01)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Spencer Dupre (38:25)
So yeah, mean, think that's, it's just like a weird topic, dude. I think that chiropractic like is weird. And maybe this is just like the generation that we're grown up into, you know, like maybe that's just something that our experience in school. So if you guys have a different experience in that, let us know because it'd be good to gain some perspective, you know, but I think the whole chiropractors eat their young thing and the associateship sucks is because we as chiropractors,

ZT (38:37)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (38:50)
open up our practices, overwork ourselves, and then we only hire associates. I say we, like this is a blanket statement. So, and I know that a lot of people run really good businesses. And so I know that you're not doing this, but I think in the general humdrum aspect of the profession, think that associates are hired too late and we're only getting people just to do work because we're so burnt out as the business owner that you're just like,

ZT (39:00)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (39:17)
We're not good at building systems. We're not good at nurturing people. Our leadership is poor. And so then what we do is then like, it's like, well, I got this associateship. I never see the practice owner anymore. I don't know what they're working on. They're not mentoring me. And I'm just here like getting people like jumping on my table and I have no idea what to do. And so then it burns out that person. said, well, if I'm doing this, I might as well be on my own. And then the cycle continues to happen. So I think like, you know,

ZT (39:30)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (39:45)
building team, talking together more, dropping our egos, I think that's the biggest thing. And that's, I think like as the business owner, I'm gonna pour more into you as the associate than I would even myself because it's like, it's on me to go and teach you. And I don't take that very lightly. So, I mean, I do that with our staff too. It's like, dude, like, what can I do? How can I help you support you? Because you're saying like, hey, like I trust you enough to give you this, I mean, my career.

ZT (39:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Thank

Yeah. 100 % 100%. It's definitely a touchy subject, but I don't know. I'm curious to hear listeners thoughts, like whether you're in school or freshly out. Um, you know, it's always great to, to hear from you guys, like, Taylor, who kind of sprung this conversation on, um, sliding our DMS and asking about, know, why associate, why open on your own, those sort of things. So we appreciate that feedback. Appreciate you all listening.

Spencer Dupre (40:16)
Cool.

Yeah, send us a DM. If you guys are business owners looking for associates, let us know what you're looking for in an associate. And if you are an associate, tell us what made you choose your associateship because I think that's a big thing. if that's really where the key is, is if somebody is like, this is why I chose to work here. For the people who are owning businesses, that's like, that's huge because if you know that, then like you can get all the associates, right?

ZT (41:07)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (41:13)
And if you're on the fence, let us know why you're on the fence. Let us know why you are leaning one way or the other, if you have any other questions. So I think these are good conversations for us to have. And like every week, thanks so much for listening to the What Now Podcast, guys. We'll see you guys later. Peace.

ZT (41:22)
100%.

Peace.