92. Hiring to Fit YOUR Culture

Spencer Dupre (00:00)
Yo, yo, yo everybody. What is up? Welcome back to another episode of hopefully a better connected. What now podcast. So some Zach, how are you bro?

ZT (00:11)
A non-subluxated episode. No interference. No irritation. Here we go.

Spencer Dupre (00:15)
That's

true. The internet interference has been crazy recently. It's either been, don't know how to work technology or the government is trying to...

ZT (00:26)
world's just trying to take us down. We've too good of a message to spread.

Spencer Dupre (00:28)
Yep.

They're trying to stop us from teaching you guys how to build a cash-based principal chiropractic office. Like, no, it's too, no, too many backs are getting cracked, no.

ZT (00:35)
Hehehehe

Too much crack.

Spencer Dupre (00:43)
No, no. But yeah, dude, what's up, man? How are you?

ZT (00:49)
I'm doing pretty good, Doing pretty good.

Spencer Dupre (00:51)
Okay, so last week we tried to record and it was very subluxated, did not go very well. We just posted our EHR episode today. I thought that one was pretty good. Then we have one with Brooks Hill coming out, which is fantastic. That was a really good episode. Last week we were kind of talking a little bit about, at Empower Chiropractic, we are working to bring on an associate doctor.

ZT (00:59)
Yeah.

Super good. Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (01:21)
And our interview process has been fun. It's been exciting. It's been interesting. So, yeah, we talked a little bit about that. But first, what's new with you, Zach? How's it going for you?

ZT (01:33)
Things have been really good, man. As I was saying before we click record, I feel like I'm in a really good flow flow state at the moment. ⁓ just kind of letting things happen naturally. that's, that's really cool.

Spencer Dupre (01:45)
Yeah.

What does that mean for you? Like what does a good flow state feel like for you?

ZT (01:50)
Yeah, I'm not like, I know when I get into more of a primitive brain as something I've been reading a changed mind would call it. Uh, I want to start to freak out about time a lot more. Um, every, I know I've talked about this a few times, but like tasks, tasks that can be as simple that take five minutes, like a progress video, uh, in my brain become very like, this is going to take an hour. I don't have an hour.

could do so much more with an hour. ⁓ versus when I'm in my flow state or when I just feel on this like natural rhythm, I just knock those things out. ⁓ creative ideas come up. I post them or I work on them, ⁓ with no real attachment. So that would be part of it. And then, I mean, obviously working with patients, ⁓ it just is like a natural work with patients for three, three to four hours. And then I can go into work or whatever.

just flows really easily.

Spencer Dupre (02:49)
Yeah, what do you feel like are like, what do feel like things that like get you out of that? Like, is it things like a really busy schedule? Because I know it like kind of gets me out of that for me.

ZT (02:57)
⁓

I think in large part, ⁓ maybe I could be looking into it too much, when I'm not well structured outside of work and the office. ⁓ and so what I mean by that, like if I'm not following a, some sort of nutrition plan, not necessarily diet, but just something where I'm meal plan meal prepped, ⁓ eating bad food, you know, not exercising.

And then a lot of social media time, kind of the, I mean, generic things, but I would also say, ⁓ when I focused too much on the day to day. So if I look at my schedule and we have one new patient, I'm like, that should be four new patients rather than being excited for that one new patient. ⁓ so I would say a culmination of those three to four things. What about you?

Spencer Dupre (03:49)
Dude, throws me out of rhythm is having too much on my plate, dude. Like I've been like big time out of rhythm recently. I think honestly, probably ever since Kate's half marathon, speaking of Kate, she just hit me up right now. Like, yeah, dude, ever since Kate's half marathon, I feel like it really kind of like threw me off of my rhythm. Not because like the half marathon like kind of got in the way is just like ever since like since that weekend we've

had like a lot of things going on, weddings, travel, seminars, all of that kind of stuff. And I haven't been able to do like my whole like weekend reset. And then we like, okay, we ran the half marathon, we moved the office and now that we moved the office, the office has grown and I haven't had time to like sit down and be like, okay, these are our new systems and procedures.

for the new space. Even though it's kind of the same thing, take the person back, do the day one, take them up to the adjusting area, the flow is a lot differently. So we're just in kind of like a, we're going to figure it out type space. And same thing with, we're looking to bring on an associate doctor and our interviewing process has eaten up a lot of time. Now we're staying at the office until 7.30, eight o'clock doing.

ZT (05:00)
Hmm.

Spencer Dupre (05:15)
interviews or working shadows or all those kind of things like every day last week including Friday, which is supposed to be our CEO day we had ⁓ an interview and then every single day this week we had ⁓ Every single day this week. We have a working shadow and so like when I don't have time to like Prioritize my things like dude. I always know like you always know my stress level the more emails that are in my inbox

ZT (05:18)
Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

Spencer Dupre (05:44)
Like it's like almost proportional because like I'm

somebody that I like to have everything like cleared out. I don't like to have unread text messages. I don't like to have unopened emails. I like to clear all of those out every single week. And like, dude, like I think before we left for Naples, I had like 850 unread emails and uh, I cleared all of those out the day before Naples. Cause I knew like if I opened up, like if I was in Naples, I wasn't going to be present. If I knew that there's a bunch of these like emails in my inbox that I haven't.

had done. then came back from Naples, had like another 350. So it's like trying to like stay up with all of those things. Like as we grow, we're definitely in like one of those like breakdown to break through like expansion seasons where like our upper limits are like really being pushed and like really being tested right now in terms of like, how much can we handle? How much money are we willing to invest? How much time are we willing to invest? Like, yeah, dude, like

ZT (06:19)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (06:41)
You know, it's great. Like we're in a really blessed spot, but like, don't know if I've had an invoice, like less than $1,500 come in, like in the last like two months. I feel like everything is like $1,500 here, $1,500 there, $2,000 here. Like it's not at this point where, where before like, it's kind of like the same issue, but like just had a greater scale because like before it was like, was like a hundred dollars here, $200 there. And, know, so I feel like it's a lot more. And like that, I don't have my finances for the new spot, like figured out yet.

ZT (06:48)
Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (07:09)
I like to have like all of my ducks like kind of settled to where I don't have like any of these like really small tedious tasks because what ends up throwing me off of my flow, all this to say is like when I have unread emails, when I haven't gone through our books, when I have unread messages, to me and my brain, it's like those are so easy. I'm going to knock those out to where whenever I go and I put forth like my big effort working on my visionary CEO type stuff, like re overhauling our email automations or all those kinds of things.

ZT (07:10)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (07:39)
After I put forth my big effort, I don't want to have to be like, ⁓ I have like a bajillion like little bitty sub blue, ⁓ a bajillion like little bitty tiny tasks to do. ⁓

ZT (07:51)
Yeah.

Which is so, so interesting. And I want to come back to that. But once again, we are the complete opposite person because when I'm in my flow state, not looking to text messages and not looking at emails. Um, and that's how I've ended up with, I think 7,000 unread emails, um, that I just have kind of accepted the fact that those will never get read. Um, and, um, but with that, like you talked about testing the upper limits. I'm going back through.

Spencer Dupre (08:12)
You stress me, bro.

ZT (08:21)
I did not read or comprehend the big leap very well when I read it last year. so I'm going back to it thanks to the recommendation of Steph and Nikki. ⁓ but with your upper limits being tested, what do you feel like is the lesson or at least right now what you're perceiving as a lesson, like through this season.

Spencer Dupre (08:43)
man.

I don't know, I haven't had time to sit down and think about that. And that's like, those are the things that like, I really like to take time to think about. But ⁓ right now in this moment, I think the lesson is like, I can't do everything alone. Like a lot of stuff, like I've just had to like start delegating like a lot of things. And it really all comes back down, I think to leadership, right? it, dude, my upper limit dude is that it's like,

It there's I think the lesson I think that I'm really learning if I really think about it, I'm sure to be honest, is that like you never quote get there like when when I get to this, when I get to X, Y and Z, when I can do this, when I can do that like.

I think that like the true measure of success is how much freedom do you truly have to chase your dreams? That's what I think like is like truly makes you successful. It's not about the quantitative, how many achievements can you have or anything like that? Like you're truly successful. I think like.

The people that I've seen that like what I would say have achieved the measure of success are people who have the freedom in their life to chase whatever they're most passionate slash excited about in that moment. That's where I'm at right now. Like, so whether that's your family, like saying like, Hey, like, you know what? I really want to prioritize my family right now. And so I'm going to chase more time there. And I have the freedom to now invest more time there or other people, you know, who are, ⁓

in like a grind phase that are like, listen, like we're, want to invest and go all in right here. And I don't think that I've ever really met someone who was a high achiever that has ever said, oh yes, I've gotten quote there, right? Like we're always chasing the next metric, but if you, if your measure of success is how fast you quote, get there or whatever, like it's not fulfilling. And so I think that like, for me right now,

ZT (10:41)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (10:56)
in my upper limit issue is that like, I don't have everything figured out. I don't have like all my ducks in a row and I have to like actually be okay with that. And, um, because now we have a bigger operation, like we have more people trying to get involved with us and like, that's what we wanted. And so this is what I've prayed for, but now I can't, so like, can't go back and say like, Oh man, I wish like none of this was happening. You know, it's like.

ZT (11:07)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (11:20)
Just got to find people to support our dreams, support our stuff. Like right now it's great. We have the freedom to go and do these kinds of things. It's awesome. Like I'm super excited. Like bringing on associate doctor, like it's been really an honor. Like we had our first working shadow yesterday. She was fantastic. We've got a couple other candidates that we're super excited about. And I never thought that I would be in the position that other people were saying, Hey, I look up to you so much that I would love to work for you as a chiropractor, you know, or really just in general. Like I never really, you know, I,

ZT (11:45)
and

Spencer Dupre (11:50)
take that very seriously. So, ⁓ yeah, dude, it's like, never truly get there, right? It's how you get there. think it's more about the journey. It's more about the, way that you do things. I think that's truly more fulfilling. Right. Like, I mean, it's, that's kind of like what Taylor Welch like has been talking about. I've been learning a lot from his stuff is, know, like he had the massive companies, I think like, you know, $10 million sales company that he just like scaled like to the moon, like in two years, like.

ZT (11:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

100 %

Spencer Dupre (12:20)
Dude, like in our first two years, we went from zero to half a million dollars in two years. And I was like, Whoa, that's like lightning fast. I there's, couldn't imagine doing zero to 10 million. Like in two years, dude, that'd be crazy. And I mean, that's what he says is like, he's like, built it so fast. And he's like, I built it off of like the wrong principles and like the wrong kind of things. And I'd felt like I had to give it all away. So he's like, I just, I didn't build intentionally and I was stressful. He's like, you know, I became somebody different that I didn't want to be whenever.

ZT (12:30)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (12:50)
I built for the sake of building, right? I tried to build the thing and not build my life. And so I think that's really big. Like in our practices, dude, like we were in Nashville with Jenna Carter, who owns the Cairo Co. And we were talking to her about, Hey, like, what do you want to do next? And, or not Nashville, we were in New Orleans with for a wedding. We were talking to her, dude. And she was like, man, I really love my like little boutique practice. And she's like, uh, she's like, that's what I want. Like, I don't want like this big high volume practice. Like I really love my.

ZT (12:52)
Right. Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (13:18)
you know, three day a week, booty practice, I'm super happy, take home enough money to pay the bills for both me and support my husband while he's in flight school. And she's like, and that's kind of my big thing is like, you know, wow, that's great. Like that's more freedom than I have to do. Like I'm answering text messages and answering emails and stuff like while I'm at the wedding. ⁓ so I think it's all about building kind of what you want.

ZT (13:26)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. A hundred percent.

Yeah. And think that's the one's really insightful. And it's something I've, I think I mentioned when we tried to record last week, like I felt like Q1 was a very much breakdown to break through a moment for me, just where I was very resistant to a lot of the lessons that had been fed to me. And I think I've shared like a big goal of mine. So it's basically getting the chiropractic school and I decided to open.

Um, maybe like tried three or four. was like, I was going to be a million dollar practice in three years. And I realized basically in Q1 that I was trying to build and scale to that in a really unhealthy way. Um, and it was like, well, what's what comes after three years? Like, am I just going to burn myself out? Um, burn a lot of bridges, like build it the wrong way, not sustainable. Um, and just be on this hamster wheel. Um, or can I build this in a much more efficient, sustainable, loving.

fun environment, ⁓ which is what I truly care about. And so it's, it's pretty interesting like hearing that you've learned that from Taylor and then that you're learning that yourself.

Spencer Dupre (14:43)
Dude, was telling, had a, and I were having like a pretty serious talk one day, because I was just like feeling super anxious. She's like, why are you feeling super anxious? I like, I feel like I haven't done enough. And like, it's crazy because like every time that we have like a record, anything, I'm at my lowest. it, like I'm at my lowest is because like, one, a lot of it has to come down to like self-worth. Like, do I feel like I'm worthy of having these kinds of things? And really like, if I'm being honest, like the answer,

ZT (14:55)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (15:12)
at this moment is like, don't feel like I've deserved like to have as like have the practice that we have, because I really, at the same time, like, I really don't feel like I've built it like from myself, like, I've always just kind of like moved into the position in which I felt God was calling me next, like, well, yeah, dude, seems like the easiest, next most logical step is to do this. And so like, I feel like this is what I have to do. And really, it's kind of just been like, well, I feel like if I don't take this opportunity, I'm not living up to my fullest potential, like I know what my best

my best effort is and I know what my best effort is not. And like my whole thing is like every day I'm gonna just go in and my best effort and like best effort to be connected, best effort to be a good leader, best effort to be a good financial steward, best effort to be not selfish, best all of those things. And that's kind of what I've done. And so like the goal was to hit 30K one month. And then I felt like super low because I was like, okay, well like what next? Like there's almost like when there's nothing to chase, there's no direction.

ZT (15:42)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (16:11)
Right. And so it's like, not only chasing like the statistics, cause the statistics are a direct reflection of like the things that you were doing, but it's like, you have to chase like the feeling, like the, like the freedom you have to like, you know, it's like,

ZT (16:12)
Mm-hmm.

I think that's what's been, what's been interesting. So we've slowly been implementing EOS and a big part of that is the quarterly rock system. ⁓ and so for a long time, like I would go into a quarter, I'd go into a month and it was like this month I want to hit 30 K or 40 K. ⁓ but there wasn't really like in order to do that, this is what we need to do. ⁓ and so my, my team, when I would share that goal, they're just looking at me like, okay, like how are we going to do that? ⁓ and so just last

Last Tuesday, ⁓ we had our first, first ever true quarterly meeting and it was really powerful. We got to brainstorm rocks to how we're going to hit our quarterly goal. and really break that down and kind of, ⁓ Divvy out the six, the five or six rocks that we created, ⁓ put a timetable on them, how we're going to go about accomplishing those and how those are actually going to equate to us hitting our goal. ⁓ and the reason I bring that up is because rather than.

trying to chase after this number, more of the things that we need to be getting done on a daily or weekly basis and that give us that sense of achievement to keep us on the right path. If that makes sense, I don't know if I'm getting my point across.

Spencer Dupre (17:38)
No, dude, I mean, it makes sense. It's like, got to, well, first you have to start with Y. You have to start, okay, why do we need to achieve X metrics? Right? Well, because, ⁓ if we achieve X metrics, the metrics mean that we have created slash achieve X, Y, and Z. Right? So it's like, yeah, I mean, the biggest thing for me is like really a lot of times, like our visit volume per week slash month and our collections.

ZT (17:43)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (18:04)
The whole reason that I want to get those up is not so that like I can say like, I'm seeing a ton of people. It's so that I can afford and substantiate the workload for another associate doctor. The reason we want to bring on an associate doctor is so that Caitlin can, ⁓ one, so somebody can really take on a lot of the workload for Kate so that we can start to have a family and we're not, we don't have to pick, do we pick our kid? Do we pick our practice and

ZT (18:14)
and

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (18:30)
that's the kind of freedom that we're chasing after is because it's like, don't want to have to say like, Kate, well, like, I know that you're not feeling good today, but like you have people to adjust. And then I don't also want to say like, Hey, like, you can't get adjusted today. And like, sorry, like, I know that we're working on your kids sensory processing stuff and we're trying to get them to school and like too bad, but Kate's not here. Like, so you have to find another day. Like I don't necessarily want to do that. You know, like I'm trying to live a yes and life and like, ⁓

ZT (18:50)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. And

it's by hitting those, hitting those metrics that you're able to do so. How are you, how are you communicating that then to Logan and then set associate? Like when you have these goals. Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (19:03)
Yeah, right. And so it's like.

the rest of our team.

Yeah, dude. mean, that's why I say I say the stats are a direct reflection of the impact that we have. Statistics are just a way. They're numbers that measure how you impact the people that you serve. Right. So that's really a dude. Like, I mean, I feel like all of the big stats that we measure in chiropractic for KPI, right? Those are all lagging indicators, which just means like they're just a result of something else.

So like ⁓ your OVA is a direct reflection on how much value you can attribute to one office visit. Your PVA is how well do you retain people and your retention is how well do you provide value for continuing chiropractic. Your collections per month is how consistently are you able to get people to come back, like those kind of things, know. ⁓ Those are all lagging indicators and so it's like,

ZT (19:50)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (20:10)
Same thing with new patients, dude. Like if you're like struggling to get more new patients in, it's like, don't try to get people in the door. Just try to tell your community about the way that you can serve them. Right? I mean, that's the biggest thing is like for me, it's never been like, how can I get more new patients? It's for me, it's just been like, how can I tell more people what we do and how much impact we can have in their life? And because of the way that I communicate the impact that we have on people that should inherently create more people that want to come in.

Right? Because if I'm saying the right message and to the right people, then they're going to say like, that's for me. And it's the same thing with Logan. It's like, you know, like people aren't booking because they are like, ⁓ think chiropractic is the answer. They think that we can provide like that. We're the place for them. Like our goal, our whole mission of our practice right now is to be the first resource for families. And.

A resource is a thing that you can use or you can't use. That's all dependent on how resourceful you are. And so like if we're just a resource for people, then our answer can, like we just want people to choose to talk to us first because we want people to believe and perceive that we have their best interests in mind no matter what they're going through. And so like if people are calling in, they're saying like, Hey, like my kid's struggling with X, Y, and Z. What do you think I should do?

ZT (21:07)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (21:37)
Like that's kind of like what we want them to say, whether that's get adjusted, see a functional medicine provider, I don't know.

ZT (21:44)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (21:46)
All of those kind of things. We just want to be able to say like, hey, like can't like, can we help you? Yes or no. And we need to build that trust with our community to do that. And so that shows up in the way that we serve our people and the way that we show up on Instagram and the way that we show up in the office and the way that we show up outside of work in the way that we communicate our message with people in the way that we answer the phones. Like all of those things are direct reflection to our why and how much do we believe in them?

ZT (22:10)
Really good. Really good. So with that, I think we're leading into, mean, I don't know if you still want to talk about the hiring and kind of what you've been looking for with an associate, but with that impact, with that mission, obviously, I mean, not that no other founder would say this, but you clearly care so much about the brand of Empower. So what are you looking to bring on? ⁓ like what do you have your eyes set on and your, your ears set on?

Spencer Dupre (22:28)
Well, I think...

Well, I

I talk about that with Caitlin all the time. And I was telling you like before we were recording, I was talking with my friend, Mike. If you guys have probably heard about Mike, if you listen to Austin Cohen's episode, Mike and Austin Cohen are homies. When Mike was living in Atlanta and Mike was the CEO. Well, he was the president of this $4 billion company. ⁓ He was telling me he was responsible for like, you know,

something like $2.8 billion of revenue. And so ⁓ if you don't think that you can have an impact as an intrapreneur, if you think all you can do is own the company to have an impact, then you're totally wrong. Cause Mike didn't own a single part of that company and he, $3 billion of revenue was under him. That's crazy. $3 billion. Like, ⁓ anyway, he was just, I was just asking him, you know, like what's the difference between

good leadership and bad leadership. And the whole point, everything that Mike does in his business is he is a recruiter. So their whole job is to find people to work for other people. And I said like, what's the biggest key in that? And he said, it's how well do they fit into your culture? like, that's it. You can train skillset. Like obviously you need to have like some skillset, but skills are just behaviors. And what he was telling me is that like,

ZT (23:47)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (24:03)
Your mindset affects your behavior and your behaviors are going to dictate like your actions and your behaviors and your actions are a little bit different, but ⁓ those actions are going to directly dictate your outcome. so a lot of people, what they try to, we need to them on the podcast, but a lot of people, they try to fix the behavior of their team, but they don't ever fix the mindset. Right. And so, ⁓ I mean, that's our biggest thing is I'm trying to build a good culture and

ZT (24:27)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (24:32)
That's kind of what we're interviewing for. like, if you guys are listening to this and like you have interviewed with us, our, my biggest thing is like, I'm sure that you're a great chiropractor in your own capacity. My biggest thing is I don't really even care like how good of an adjuster you are. need to see that you have potential to be a good adjuster, but I really need to know is do you fit our culture? Because you be the greatest adjuster. But if you have a bad, if you don't fit into our culture and our messages are different, then it's not going to be a win-win for either of us. You're going to get frustrated with us. We're going to get frustrated with you.

ZT (24:33)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (25:02)
And so we're really looking for a good culture fit. ⁓ So that's kind of what really where I would like to talk about today, Zach is like in your brand, in our brands and kind of get people to like work through this is like, what is the culture that we're trying to set in our businesses? I texted Kate this is ⁓ I said, Mike, like, what is the definition of leadership? Like, what does it mean to be a good leader? And he said,

A good leader or the definition of leadership is getting people to want to do what must be done to achieve what you have defined as success. And so it's getting your people to want to do it, not like have to do it, not get to do it, not actually do it, but it's they want to because they're bought in with your mission. They understand why what must be done. So achieving the standards of excellence that you've set, like, this is what has to happen, right? For what you decide as success.

So then when you work backwards, it's like, okay, well, right now I am defining what I achieve as success. So that's 50K a month, 60K a month, et cetera. So what must be done to do that? Well, to do 60K a month, we need to have an OVA of this, which we need to charge this. Right now we're collecting this, so we need to generate extra amount of X dollars. And so why should I want to do that?

Well, if we collect more, then we're able to give a raise, which gives you more freedom, which then lets us hire more people, which then gives you more freedom, which lets us give to, we could donate to charity more, X, and Z, right? And so I think that's kind of like our thought process and that's all kind of dependent on our culture. like, Zach, eventually you'll bring on an associate doctor too. So like, what is the culture at within that you're trying to set? What are like your values? What is your mission? What's your standard? What's your culture like at within?

ZT (26:48)
Hmm

Yeah, it's interesting that you, mentioned the culture. So it's a conversation I've been having with my staff and with Morgan is that I've learned that I'm definitely an introverted extrovert, if that makes sense. So I can easily put on my extroverted face and with that is high energy, ⁓ and very like compassionate. But with that, I would say, like, like if you were like brand colors, but like brand brand words, not necessarily like our core values. ⁓

Cause I know we've talked about that, but we're high octane. One of my biggest beliefs is you gotta have the same energy for the first patient of the day that you do the last patient of the day. And so with that part of our brand is doing the things daily to be able to do that. ⁓ Like we talked about like nutrition, sleep, sorts of things. But then also from a patient standpoint, like our brand is highly, ⁓ sorry, unreal results.

through highly effective, highly efficient and simple methods. And that's exactly what our patients, our ideal clients want. I would say the chiropractic adjustment from a outside in viewpoint is simple, right? Like if you were to talk to someone and you talk with someone in the community, it's like, you you just adjust. Like you hear that all the time, which obviously we know the adjustment is super powerful, but from a consumer standpoint, it's very simple, right? I know I've talked about how I do like one-on-one mobility.

⁓ and some like straight chiropractors might be upset with me doing that. but when I say like one-on-one ability, it's teaching people or getting people back to the basics. It's like teaching them how to hinge, how to cat cow. And, ⁓ that's where a lot of, at least our patients from a more pain-based standpoint, ⁓ really notice a big difference is because they've been going to so many people that are like, you have to do this modality and you have to do this 10 step protocol, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, let's get you adjusted.

Let's get your brain talking with your body again and vice versa. let's yeah. And then use it. Like I always say, like I'm the anti-doctor when it comes to movement. One of the biggest questions we get is like, should I not work out for like the next two weeks? Like, no, like I actually want you to go like, try to work out today. Take it easy, but like, you know, we're not, we're not, we're not sending PR, but go, go move your body. ⁓ let's, let's get you trying on this new posse, these new postures, these new patterns. but with that, like our brand is, is again, high energy.

Spencer Dupre (28:53)
and actually use it.

Let's get some movement in.

ZT (29:19)
we're very compassionate. ⁓ we're not, we're not pushy. ⁓ we accept you how you are. and we're going to invite you in as if we are family. ⁓ and really make sure that you feel like we are the third, third spot, ⁓ in your daily routine.

Spencer Dupre (29:35)
What would you say is the difference between brand and culture?

ZT (29:43)
⁓

Spencer Dupre (29:45)
something that just popped into my

ZT (29:48)
I think if anything, culture is more so how you, like you as a team, ⁓ coexist and like, like both of my current CAs or CA and office manager, ⁓ mentioned that they, once they found out about the job, they looked us up on social media and they actually saw that it seemed like a fun and energetic place to work, which I was very surprised about. ⁓ but.

They both, they're like, yeah, I was excited to get the job based off what I saw on social media. And so I think that's our culture. And then our brand is what people feel as they go throughout the office, if that makes sense. But I think they're a mesh of one another.

Spencer Dupre (30:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, I agree. mean, that's kind of the thing that like popped into my head is that like, ⁓ the culture is basically the standards and the values that you set in place and your brand is how you deploy that culture through your verbiage, your aesthetics. It's how you interact with your culture is your brand. Right? So like, if you're building your practice and you're like, dude, I want to have like, I, my, one of my values in my culture is, ⁓ I don't know, integrity.

or something like that. And then like, I don't know, your messaging is something that's not in integrity. Like saying like chiropractic cures back pain or something like that. To me, that's not integrity or like, know, like if your culture is in your trying to saying, I'm trying to set a family culture and you have like a super sterile wait in line, ⁓ check in with your phone kind of.

ZT (31:10)
Yeah.

Spencer Dupre (31:31)
system that's like your brand is isolated and digitized. Like for us, like our brand is like we're a super high connection office. So we have no screens in the office. Like the only screens we have is the front computer and the iPad for the scans. Like people don't interact with a screen ever. Like we don't want people on their phone in the office. We don't want kids like watching TV. We don't even have a TV that like

ZT (31:44)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (31:56)
puts out announcements and stuff because we're a high connection office and that happens face to face with people. And we want people to feel seen and so we don't have people check themself in. Every time they come in, we acknowledge them by name. And so that's kind of how your brand is supporting your culture and people are interacting with the culture of your business through your brand.

ZT (32:20)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Spencer Dupre (32:22)
So

what are some other things that you're trying to build? Like if you would say like, know, okay, say I'm, hey Zach, I would love to come and work at within. What are some character traits that you're looking for in me that would help you determine if I fit into your culture, yes or no?

ZT (32:40)
⁓ think you have to be compassionate and at the same time you have to be thick skinned. ⁓ so working with, and something I tell anyone that starts with us that I, from, mean, we haven't started an associate yet. ⁓ but, and it's probably the same working with moms and dads that haven't slept because their baby's crying. ⁓ but when first, when people first come into the office, their first couple of times and they're in severe pain or chronic pain, they're not the best, their best selves. ⁓ and so you have to be compassionate. And at the same time.

not really take what they say to heart or anything like that. They're just they're in such a fight or flight state that you can't you can't bring that home with you. So compassionate and thick skinned. You have to be willing to go above and beyond. I know that sounds so cliche, but ⁓ really giving your best adjustment, your best recommendations each visit, ⁓ but then also like your best presence. So

⁓ being sharp with your memory, just remembering one thing that the patient may have said, especially if they're on weekly or bi-weekly wellness, ⁓ remembering what their kids were doing the weekend, the last song, those sorts of things. so guess that's, that's presence. ⁓ and then I would say efficient would be, would be the third one.

Spencer Dupre (34:03)
Nice. And so like, if I were to say like, all right, Zach, like, I would love to work here. Like, what are you looking for? Like, what are you looking to get out of me? Like, because I asked this, because these are people like, these are questions that people have asked me, like in these interviews, like, what are you look by bringing me on? What are you looking to achieve?

ZT (34:27)
If I were to bring on an associate, what would I be looking to achieve?

Spencer Dupre (34:30)
Yeah.

ZT (34:31)
⁓ adding at least a hundred and a hundred to 150 visits in the office. If we're talking stats, ⁓ but also looking, ⁓ to achieve, you know, just to, I don't, I haven't really thought about that question. So that's a, that's dumb. That is that's dumb. What was.

Spencer Dupre (34:48)
I'm saying it's a thought experiment, bro. This is, these are, this is, this is what

I've been going through in the past week, dude. It's been hard. Like it's been like legit, like, because this is the real deal is like, we only have one spot for an associate right now. Like we only have capacity for one person. And I really don't, I don't want to hire a second person at this moment, like right, right now, because like, I know, it just doesn't feel congruent. Dude, these are questions that people have been asking, bro. And it's like assessing.

ZT (35:16)
That's a great question.

Spencer Dupre (35:17)
Like really solid candidates has been like really tough because it's like, dude, people are asking like, okay, like what do you want out? Like, what do want for me? Like being in your office, dude, I've never had anybody ask me something like that, you know, like.

ZT (35:29)
I one thing from an associate that I, when I think about having an associate that really gets me fired up is I've always been a team sport person. ⁓ and I know you have Kate in the office, but really having that second, second eye or second opinion to bounce ideas off of, ⁓ when it comes to working with patients, ⁓ or being out in the community, whatever that looks like. ⁓ so kind of that like Batman and Robin type mentality, ⁓ of being a team and starting to create that.

that sort of culture. Cause it's one thing to bounce ideas from like a patient experience, marketing, whatever with office manager and CA, but it's another to deep dive into, how can we have this person get even better results, even faster results, ⁓ and really up level their care is something I don't have at the moment. So that'd be a big thing, ⁓ for us bringing on an associate, at least for me personally.

Spencer Dupre (36:26)
Yeah, dude.

The thing that makes me most excited is to like bring it. It's make it not about us. Like that's like a big thing. I talked about with Steph and Naples this past week is like, dude, it's like, I know that like, have like a good impact. Like people message us all the time and say like, Hey, listen, like, thanks for, listened to the podcast. Thanks so much for all the valuable information that you have. And like, for me, like,

Dude, it's not really even about like, I want you to listen to me and listen to advice is like, I want you to have this advice and I want you to have like this knowledge because this is the thing that helps build better families in your community. And I want it to be less about me. And I want it to be more about the thing, the thing that we do, right? The business principles, the coaching, the consulting, the way that you run your practice, all those kinds of things. And the same thing with the chiropractic, like I want it to be about the chiropractic. I want it to be about the connection that it restores both internally and externally, like back.

like you to yourself and bring you home like in your nervous system, but also like bring you home like to your family, dude. Like there's so like we have this one mom, she literally was like, yeah, for the first whole year and a half, my husband and I didn't sleep like our child literally sleep 30 minutes a night and we were like just burnt out and so now we're not connected. And then they're like, man, like we're sleeping now, the baby is sleeping. We can send the baby with my mom now and we're going on our first trip in a year and a half, like where we get to spend time together, like all of those kinds of things like.

ZT (37:47)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (37:48)
helping bring those families back. And it takes more than just me and Caitlin and Logan to do that. And that's what I'm most excited about, is to have people who are on board for our mission that just support more families. It's less about us and it's more about the thing that we do, like what we do. And it's really more about the brand, it really is. I want to empower to be an identifiable thing in our community.

Anywhere that you think of like, my family goes here. Like our stamp is like right there. Like the little bird is right there. Like I want people to know like, we support you.

ZT (38:15)
Mm-hmm.

I think that's a, could be a limiting belief or like something that's holding me back from getting to that next level. ⁓ but I've never loved the idea of like, I'm going to hire an associate and then I'm going to go on vacations like left and right. but I do think it'd be awesome. Like I'm playing in a golf tournament. I'm playing a golf tournament next weekend or next week on a Thursday morning. Like I would love to just have that ability, win opportunities like that pop up that it's not this like.

crap, do I close the office for a shift or, know, do I go play in this golf tournament where I can meet two or three really impactful people, ⁓ in the community wherever. And so I'd rather just be able to say yes and keep the office open. So going back to what you had mentioned, like living that yes and life, ⁓ I think would be extremely valuable because as I'm starting to kind of come out of that breakthrough to, or break down to break through, there are more and more opportunities that are popping up.

And I'm a big believer. The more often you say no to opportunities, the less and less you're going to start to see. so just being more flexible. ⁓ and you know, we, we just went through a pretty traumatic, ⁓ event, in our household. And there were a couple of times where spur of the moment we had to close the office for a shift. ⁓ and the way it was perceived in my head, I was like, crap, I'm letting down patients, this and that didn't even tell them what we were closing for.

or anything like that. ⁓ and there was no like second thought about closing. I had to be there for Morgan, but people were like, yeah. I mean, I reschedule on you all the time. Like it's really no big deal. Like, ⁓ I can come in Friday. I can come in Wednesday afternoon. Like you guys are make yourself more than available for us.

Spencer Dupre (40:10)
Yeah, I I thought about that too, like, dude, it's like, well, this is what I was talking to Mike about too, this weekend is like bad leadership, boils down to not enough communication and not clear, no clear expectations. And so it's like, if you have associates and you're like, okay, guys, you guys are working Fridays and Thursdays and I'm not here and they don't know what you're doing.

ZT (40:23)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (40:36)
but they just see you on social media and they're like, dude, like I'm in Italy now on Thursday and Friday, like, or whatever. You know, you're like, hey, ⁓ Dr. Zach is off today. I don't know what he's doing. But then you're like, bro, I'm on the golf course chilling. Like that can be perceived by your team as like saying like, hey dude, I'm dumping my responsibility onto you. And I think a lot of people do that. And I think a lot of people bring on associates for the wrong reason. And I think a lot of people will bring it on doctors.

ZT (40:50)
I'm

Spencer Dupre (41:03)
to offload a lot of their workload when they burn themselves into the dust. And so you're just handing off your burnout because you're just handing off your burnout to young doctors who are believing in you. And I think that's wrong, but like.

ZT (41:04)
Mm-hmm.

Well, I think it has to

be, that's, that's one thing I've thought of too, is like, has to be reciprocated, right? Like I'm, I'm in talks. I'm in talks with a, don't think it'll be our first associate. Um, but plan to bring someone on in 2027. very forward thinking. Um, but we talk all the time, another solo doc and practice. Um, and it'd be nice to have that reciprocated, right? Like I would love, like, I would never be like, Hey, I'm going to go play in this golf tournament Thursday morning, uh, and give you that two weeks notice.

Spencer Dupre (41:20)
That's what I'm saying.

ZT (41:46)
And then when you come back next month, hey, I have this event or I want to go do this thing on Friday. And you'd like, Nope, you can't do that. You're, you're, you know, handcuffed to the practice. I think it needs to be reciprocated and really have each other's backs in that sense. And I think that's where you can blend that, good leadership.

Spencer Dupre (42:02)
Yeah, I think Matt Delgado does a great job of that. mean, like, if you look at Brooks's life, like, dude, like, I know she gets compensated well, and then like, dude, like they're on, they're taking trips and they have freedom and stuff. like, she's not like working herself to the bone, but she adds a ton of value to the practice. And what's cool is that

ZT (42:04)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I think he mentioned,

like he mentioned on the podcast, like he, not that he like does anything in a negative sense, but like he really pushes his team to take whatever their PTO is. He's like, you have to take a vacation. Like he's like, I almost forced them to leave. Like you got to get out of here.

Spencer Dupre (42:32)
Yeah, dude.

I told Logan that I was like, listen, like you're coming up on your two years. You haven't used your one week of PTO yet. Like you have to go, like you have to, you have to use all five of your days. And, ⁓ like, like you have to go. Like, I mean, that's the thing. And I mean, we're, we could be a lot better about that too. It's like taking PTO and everything. It's like taking a vacation and that's why we're looking to scale our team. And so dude, it's because like, and then like, dude, when I worked at the joint, like,

ZT (42:41)
Mm-hmm.

Spencer Dupre (42:58)
nothing against the Joseph or any of the people that are there. But it's like, a lot of those people are like super overworked. Like they just be working and stuff. It's because like, there's not a lot of flexibility or it's not as much flexibility. really it's that I didn't feel a lot of support like from the leadership of over there. didn't feel like they like, you know, supported me like personally, it was more about like, how well can I just support the practice?

ZT (43:09)
Mm-mm.

Spencer Dupre (43:25)
And so yeah, dude, it's like, man, I mean, like, yeah, you have to come along and like, and be the team, dude. Like, I feel like it's like, I hope my team's like the Ninja Turtles, you know, it's like, they all have their different strengths, but they all kind of look the same, like at the same, at the same day, you know, like at the end of the day, like it's just a different color on the turtle, you know.

ZT (43:44)
Which turtle are you? Are you Michelangelo?

Spencer Dupre (43:47)
No, not at all dude. I was never my-

ZT (43:49)
Are you master Splinter?

Spencer Dupre (43:53)
No, dude, he's a rat. Dude, ain't never gonna catch me being a rat, bro. Never.

ZT (43:54)
And and

and all right all rats gotta die

Spencer Dupre (44:00)
Yep, that's right. ⁓ Nah, I'm always, I'm a Leonardo kind of guy, bro. The two swords and two swords is cool. Who are you? You strike me as like, no way.

ZT (44:02)
Shout out Lil Wayne.

Yeah, I really don't know the ninja turtles that I don't really know

the ninja turtles that well to be honest Yeah, I was a huge Pokemon kid like that's really all I did Pokemon and yukio. I was a weirdo

Spencer Dupre (44:16)
Okay.

Really?

I was a Pokemon and Yu-Gi-Oh! kid too, but I mean I also watched Ninja Turtles,

ZT (44:25)
I don't know, Ninja Turtles

Spencer Dupre (44:28)
Um,

yeah. So look, if you guys like the Ninja Turtles and you want a job and you want a job, message me who your favorite Ninja Turtle is and we'll see if you fit. Because if we already have Raphael then like in your Raphael, like, sorry, like the seat on the bus is taken. Um, all right. That's another big thing too, dude, is like that we're kind of looking at is like, you know, what are our strengths and what are our weaknesses? And we're trying to hire complimentary opposites. Like for that, like Kate and I are really good complimentary opposites. We butt heads a ton because we're on super far opposite ends of the spectrum, but

ZT (44:32)
You ⁓

Hmm.

Spencer Dupre (44:58)
We're really looking for somebody who has like the same values but different skill set. ⁓ And that's like a big thing. But we're really looking to hire mostly on culture fit.

ZT (45:03)
Mm-hmm.

Nice, I think that's good.

Spencer Dupre (45:10)
So cool. All right, guys, well, we're

going to we're going to wrap up with Ninja Turtles. Let me know, like I said, what Ninja Turtle you think that you are. And ⁓ we'll see you guys next time on the What Now podcast. Peace out.

ZT (45:23)
Peace.